| 0:00:12.98 | 15.1s | Loida González Utley | Hi, you are listening to Transfer Tea, a podcast for the ̽»¨Â¥ community sponsored by ̽»¨Â¥, the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions officers. I am your host, Loida, and this is one exciting episode. |
| 0:00:32.75 | 51.2s | Loida González Utley | We are here one more time in Transfer Tea, bringing to you something really special today that I am just so excited to share with, um, all of you. But before I do, I wanted to give a kudos to Paul from Phi Theta Kappa for, uh, making the connection with these wonderful people that I'm about to present to you. Um, he is a connector of connectors and so shout out to Paul for ensuring that we can get, um, these two wonderful humans on this podcast to share some exciting things that I can't wait. Um, and so here with me today I have Doctor Celina Benavides and Doctor Jose Maldonado, and since we have good manners, we will let ladies go first, uh, and we will have Doctor Celina tell us a little bit more about herself, and then we will move on with Doctor Jose. |
| 0:01:24.44 | 48.7s | Dr. Celina Benavides | Yes, thank you. Thank you, Loida for having us and yes to Paul and Phi Theta Kappa for making the connection in the first place. Uh, I'm Doctor Celina. I'm a developmental psychologist, a researcher and educator. And I've been in the field of education broadly for about 20 years now, and this falls into doing work with afterschool programs, developing initiatives where we brought high school students to college settings to come visit, um working with uh young children who had families who were impacted by the, the justice system. So then teaching and lately, uh, I've been doing teaching in higher education since, oh gosh, spring 2012, I believe it was, and I've been at Oxnard College and I recently got tenured there and I'm a psychologist, uh, instructor over at Oxnard College in California. |
| 0:02:14.0 | 2.7s | Loida González Utley | Congratulations on your tenure. That's so exciting. |
| 0:02:17.41 | 10.6s | Dr. Celina Benavides | Yes, it's a big, um, a big moment in my life, and I've been really thrilled to be serving the community there, and I have such a great environment, great colleagues, uh, and Jose is one of them. |
| 0:02:30.89 | 14.9s | Dr. José Maldonado | OK, so I guess that's my cue. Um, yes, big shout out to Paul from Phi Theta Kappa, um, and big fan of Transfer Tea. If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time we have two, full-time faculty in an |
| 0:02:45.82 | 4.9s | Loida González Utley | episode. Oh my gosh, yes, and that is what makes this exciting. No, I'm, |
| 0:02:50.89 | 74.9s | Dr. José Maldonado | I'm super excited. We're gonna, we're gonna spill all the facul Tea. So I'm Doctor Jose Maldonado. Um, I also teach at Oxford College. We are an HSI in Southern California. I teach English and um before my My tenured position at Oxnard College, I was a freeway flyer, so I was teaching uh adjunct all over the place, um. At one point, I was teaching 7 classes at 3 different campuses and so I'm very happy to be at one campus teaching full time. Um, before I was a, an adjunct, uh, I was also a substitute teacher down in LA. I'm originally from Los Angeles, and so I have a lot of K through 8 experience, which, believe it or not, I apply a lot of that to the college classroom. Um, recently, I've been diving more deeply into a big thanks to, to my colleague, Doctor Celina. Um, diving more deeply into research, publication, writing, um, we've got a lot of ideas that we'd like to work on moving forward, but so far we've had, uh, a, an article published. We've also done some presentations nationwide, and yeah, I'm just looking forward to, to. Opening, broadening the pipeline for our transfer students. |
| 0:04:06.86 | 80.0s | Loida González Utley | Yeah, you mentioned something and, and we're gonna, it's a good segue. We've never had faculty on the transfer and and and um so if transfer listeners, if you didn't know this about me, I also do some adjunct work. So there was an immediate connection between Doctor Celina, Doctor Jose and myself, um, in that aspect. Um, and while faculty, um, do help out in recruiting and admitting transfer students, that is common. We have good partners and cross collaborations and all these wonderful things. We need our, our academic partners, right, to explain the programs and, and really help the transfer student understand what they're getting themselves into and their degrees. That's all wonderful. And I think what stood out to me, especially as faculty, is the fact that you all have taken this to another level and actually conducted research on transfer. And I was like, whoa, wait a minute. Why? Yeah, like, how does faculty even get motivated to understand an entire, not just an entire different world of enrollment management, right, but an entire different population. That right now is being overlooked, so I'm curious to know, and I know that our, our, our listeners are too. We need you to spill all the tea as to how you even got this started like where did this begin? |
| 0:05:27.42 | 106.4s | Dr. Celina Benavides | Yeah, um, I think that there's a few different pieces to that. One is that yeah, faculty at 4 year institutions do conduct research and, and it's not often that we're seeing faculty at the community college, although it is being done and they're also doing a lot of Student services work, there's doing program work that's uh directly working with students, but maybe not necessarily engaging in the research at the same time and I think something that personally was motivating for myself and in talking with Jose and other colleagues as well. was that there was a deficit perspective in talking about uh different specific students and communities and those who were marginalized, and how do we try to combat that and change the narrative around that. And I think about when I was first getting involved in my Uh, first master's program, I got that in education and I was getting my credential in math and became really interested in research, but was feeling really frustrated with the way that they were talking about certain groups. It was a lot about like at risk or problems, um. And the obstacles, and it's important to recognize that there are institutional barriers and systems in place that can um make it difficult for students to navigate, and also that these students have rich cultures and lived experiences and come from wonderful families and communities, and how do we better build those partnerships between the family, school and community. And then talk about it in ways that um highlight those strengths and assets and I think that's something that Jose and I talked about a lot about the students that we're serving and we're working with and wanting to dive more deeply into that so we can maybe change the narrative around that and propose solutions to this uh that was something that I think was a big commonality for for both of us. |
| 0:07:15.51 | 211.2s | Dr. José Maldonado | Yeah, and I, I think that in my case, it really came down to student needs, um, like that I know in, in, in transfer, yeah, I've heard you say a lot like education is so important, right? I mean, to the point where you even went out and started a podcast about this, which is awesome. And so I just kept noticing student needs. It all comes down to, in my case, I'm wondering, you know, do they have access to social mobility? Do they have access to financial stability, um, what are their options out there in the world and as we know the study and we know, you know, the, the studies keep showing us that the higher you go up in education, the more doors open for you, right? And so very early on in my career, um, as a as a full-time faculty. I started making those connections of like, oh, I need to figure out a way, for lack of a better term, I need to figure out a way to transferize my curriculum. And I'm really lucky cause in that since I'm teaching English, I'm able to bring in all these different disciplines into my classroom, um. And so, for example, in my transfer level composition course, the first essay of the semester is actually a response to the University of California personal insight questions. Um, so the UC system out here in California, if you want to apply to the UC system, you have to answer a set of questions. It's like a personal statement if you will, right? And so I was like, I'm just gonna integrate that into my class and Um, some of my students are like, why are you making me do this? Why are you forcing me to do this? I don't want to transfer and I'm just like, just watch. And later on, sure enough, they'll come back and they're like, I use this to get into UC Davis, I use this to get into UCLA and Uh, another thing that I started implementing in my class is, um, again at the transfer composition level, at the end of every single session, the entire semester, I make sure to do a quick presentation, maybe like 2 to 3 minute presentation on a different campus, a public university in California. Um, and the, and it's not that I'm like actively keeping out private universities is that we don't have enough days to cover those. um, but by the time I'm done with you in my class, you know, about every single you see in Cal State in in California, because I feel like. Our role is not just to teach classes, but to teach students. And I noticed that there is, I mean, many of our students are first generation, and so they don't necessarily have access to a lot of this information. They simply don't know what options are available to them. And so I just want to open the world to them and show them like, look at all these amazing schools that were built for you. And just really quickly, if I could, if I can also mention. I do remember Loya you've, you've said before that sometimes students kind of just out of nowhere will be like, I'm gonna transfer today and um I remember you mentioning that you used to sell cars and that that's how it is for, for buying cars too, right, that some people are just gonna be like, I'm gonna buy a car today. But I think that that comes from exposure, right? I mean, think about it, you, you're driving around in the street, you see cars everywhere, you see car commercials all the time. And so I think the same applies to transfer. If you are constantly being bombarded by all these messages like, you can go to Berkeley, you can go to UC San Diego, you can go to Fullerton, whatever the case may be. I feel like eventually that seed gets planted and it feels random, but it's actually not. It's simply a result of all that bombardment, you know. So that's, that's really what I try to do in my classes too. |
| 0:10:47.40 | 12.2s | Loida González Utley | What you just described is so unusual and so powerful. So let me, let me, let me see if I can um understand this. You have a separate English class for transfer students? |
| 0:11:00.13 | 13.5s | Dr. José Maldonado | Oh no, so this is um this is college composition, uh, we call it transfer level, so this is. Um, essentially, it's the first English course that applies to when you um enroll in a year. |
| 0:11:14.20 | 70.8s | Loida González Utley | OK, got it. OK. And so you're teaching, you're embedding some of the necessary skills already to the students. So even Before they know that they're transferring, you're teaching them to transfer. And that is an early intervention tactic that it's, it's common in enrollment management, but not so common in academics. So now I'm thinking, can you imagine what The world would look like, what our states would look like if every single English composition class at every single community college was taught with that much intentionality. How many more people would apply to complete and transfer, um. If you heard of transfer, you've heard me say this too before, um, I think we can all agree that um we want to change society, right? We want society to look differently. How do you get there? You educate people, but how do you go further and, um, and inform them and encourage them to get educated, and it starts with what you just said, immersing them in that same message, but not all students get that message. What are your thoughts? |
| 0:12:25.52 | 150.9s | Dr. Celina Benavides | You know, I, I think that you can be alone in at your institution and feel like you might be alone that there maybe there's just a few of you who are pushing in these different ways, and it is really powerful though when you're in a space where at every level of the institution, I, I feel like that's something really special about Oxnard College that our faculty staff and admin are all really supportive of the different pathways that our students want to go on, whether it's to go the technical trade route. To get a certificate or to transfer we're exposing them to the different opportunities. It's talked about in our courses the events that are being thrown the community partners that are being invited to campus to come meet with our students, and that does take intentionality at all levels and, and, and buying so that I think says a lot about um the ways that you can create these shifts and every institutions at different. And starting places with us and I think that it's starting with um finding like-minded colleagues and then how do you brainstorm together and think about institutional impact that you can have, how do you create that buy-in where then it becomes permeated across the whole institution and you're all then brainstorming together and doing your professional development around this, um, and thinking about the ways that you can incorporate, um. And all the touch points you have with students because that's really what leads to the student success and because everyone wants to we, we may have the students on our campuses, but are we retaining them and enabling them to go on to the next part of their journey and I think that's where we see the differences um we're doing, I feel like again this is where we're at with our college, but that's what also led us to then thinking about the research and thinking about the pipelines because then we started to expand more. More about, OK, well we know we're doing great work here. Are there opportunities though for students throughout not only the state of California where we're from but across the US and that's where it led to our research when we started to analyze at a national level. OK, well what does this look like? And unfortunately we saw that some institutions had a 1% transfer rate of how many students they were admitting more transfer students. And the more that we started diving into this, we. became frustrated with the, the numbers that we were seeing, and many were talking about, oh, the low enrollment, or that they weren't seeing diversity in their student body. And we're like, well, we have, we have a solution for you. Let's talk about how do we strengthen these pipelines. Uh, and if you say you want to dive in a little bit more about like what sparked our thinking there and where this led to some exciting new possibilities that we hope lead to changes at some, um, some of these four-year institutions. |
| 0:14:57.13 | 133.4s | Dr. José Maldonado | Yeah, and you know, as, as we know, there's There's this consistent number that we see with community college students coming in. It's usually hovering about 80% in terms of 80% of incoming community college students come in with the goal to transfer, right? And I know that there might be some faculty out there who feel like, well, that's not my job. Transfer is a counselor's job or um an academic advisor. Maybe the transfer center can handle it. My job is to teach how to write an essay and use commas. And I see it as breaking down silos. We are all at the end of the day, we're all there to serve our students, right? And so, I just feel like, you know, that warm hand off bringing in um academic advisors and counselors and different folks into the classroom to talk to students about the resources that we have that all feeds into the curriculum. The curriculum is success at the end of the day, right? And so, um, it's all about breaking down those, those, those silos and working together. I really, I'm not a big fan of folks kind of working in their own little corner and not knowing about each other because if I don't know, like, for example, Loida, if you and I are working on campus together. And I don't know your name and I don't know where your office is located. Most likely my students don't either, right? But if I bring you into the classroom or if I walk my students to your office now they have that additional resource that they can use so that they can transfer and that really like you said, uh, Celina, that. To our research, like, how do we do this at scale, what we're doing at Oxnard College, how do we look at the big picture and plug those leaks that we know exist? What are the results or what are the um causes of some of these leaks, and also how do we broaden that pipeline so that more of our amazing students um who have been, who have so much incredible rich, lived experience, so much wisdom and knowledge, we know. That our community college students can go out there and succeed anywhere. You just give them the tools, give them the resources, they, they got this, right? And we have so many stories to support that, um, but how do we make the world see that as well? |
| 0:17:11.25 | 85.6s | Dr. Celina Benavides | And there's research on that already by others who who've examined that, that sometimes um there's these misconceptions about our transfer students that that may be there. They're not ready to be at um the rigorous level at a 4-year institution, but prior researchers have shown that they're performing at the same level or even higher than an incoming freshman. That's right because they've had this time to be uh in preparation at a 2 year, they've had time to practice what does it look like to do college level academic writing to gain research skills. So they're, they're going into uh the, the transfer process like ready to be at an excelling, um, point. And we just, we wanna showcase them, we want to support that and think about this, um, again at a national level about how do we expand the, the pipeline so that they're able to transfer and then also provide strategies for for institutions to think about, OK, not only does it matter to bring them in, but again, how are we retaining them? Because we often find that if a student. Doesn't feel a sense of belonging to their campus institution there's a departure that happens and that's gonna happen within the first semester or maybe by the end of the first year and that's this missed opportunity for our students and their families and their communities and also for these institutions that they're going to and really thinking about the ways that, OK, can we draw from the research and use these evidence backed evidence-based strategies to to try and kind of change these institutional practices that make it more inclusive for all students success. |
| 0:18:37.78 | 18.6s | Loida González Utley | Anecdotal experiences are so powerful, but we know that we can't make a change unless we have concrete data. Data is power, right? And so I, I want you, if it's OK to share with our listeners, what is your research specifically on and what data did it reveal to you? |
| 0:18:57.55 | 100.3s | Dr. Celina Benavides | Yeah, so I think that there's different approaches to it. We're in the process of working on a few different Ideas that we have coming down the pipeline hopefully, uh, so there's some future work that we're doing some hopefully with our institutional programs that we have in place at our own site and we also looked at did a secondary data analysis where we're looking at what are the transfer trends and the numbers of community colleges nationwide as well as uh the incoming class of um students in the um gosh what was I'm trying to think of when we first got our article published they remind me, was it 20? 24 class that we were first looking at the incoming class, yes, yes, from the, the fall. Thank you, um, and so we were looking at those numbers and seeing, OK, well, what's the, the representation of transfer students? What does this look like if we break down the demographics by um Yeah, racial ethnic composition and some of that is becoming a little bit more buried so that's harder to identify. Not everyone is um listing that right now. So that took some work to disaggregate that, but then we were able to identify, OK, well, where Are we seeing some dips in numbers and then how do we try to increase that again? Um, maybe there are some historical trends that are happening based off of current politics and things that have happened in the, um, with the Supreme Court and decisions that have made it difficult to uh think about enrollment for certain students. But then, well, knowing that that's what's the case, how do we then still go back to this idea of expanding it and trying to think about the ways that they're recruiting diverse students and, and focusing in on our community colleges so that way we have that pipeline and that pathway for those students. |
| 0:20:38.48 | 1.8s | Loida González Utley | So this is an ongoing study, right? |
| 0:20:40.58 | 6.4s | Dr. Celina Benavides | Well, we're, we're hoping to, yeah, we have a few more projects. We don't want to give it away too much. Maybe you'll kind of on the next time. |
| 0:20:47.67 | 33.2s | Loida González Utley | No, no, this is, this is exciting. This is exciting because a few episodes ago, um, we had, um, other speakers from a system and they were just starting so last July they were just starting. To implement and and they were going they were on a brink of collecting metrics so it was like the idea was there, they've established some things and I told them, OK, we're gonna follow up on this. So this is really good because this means that second part of this episode is coming once we have some data sets. Which I am so curious to hear about, but I'll I'll give it back to you, Doctor Jose. |
| 0:21:21.2 | 147.0s | Dr. José Maldonado | Yeah, yeah, of course. So, um, just to share some of the numbers, so again, in that, in that um article that we recently had published by Harvard in January, um, just to share some numbers and again, this is coming from folks. We are community college practitioners. We are not only passionate about our work, but we think our students can do anything, right? And so when we see the numbers, we're kind of scratching our heads like, wait a minute, what's going on here? There's, there's this disconnect, um, the messaging is not getting across. So, so just to share some numbers, um, on average, Harvard will accept, uh, Out of thousands of um transfer applicants, they usually accept about 12 each year. Oh wow. Um, that's 12, 12, not so it's not a misprint there. um. And this, we, we found that this one actually is not unique at a lot of selective universities. So for example, at Stanford, um, in 2022, they had 3,141 applicants, transfer applicants, uh, and they admitted 47. Um, MIT admitted 24 transfer students out of about 1500 applicants. Um, so this, we're talking like minuscule, we're talking less than 2% here, right? Uh, Duke University is at about 4% for transfer students and so we're wondering, there's a reason these numbers are so low, what's, what's going on here? And we honestly feel that part of it is because there is a stigma about community college. Not just students, but the community college institutions in general, even though, again, we consistently see the research that shows us that community college students are successful um at really good rates, their, their, their academic preparedness is excellent and if they do happen to um you know, stumble or struggle, it's actually. Because of outside forces, they might be caretakers, they might be parents, as we know, uh, transfer students tend to be, um, quote unquote older and that means like older than 18, right? Non-traditional as we say. And so as you get older, your responsibilities get higher. So it's not because they don't. Belong in the classroom. It's simply that they just need more wrap-around resources. And so that's what we're trying to bring attention to is like, are you serving your students' needs or are you just admitting them but not really seeing whether there's throughput. |
| 0:23:48.78 | 43.4s | Loida González Utley | Like you want them, but are you ready for them? You know, how do y'all feel about this statement? Um, is your hypothesis that, um, transfer students um are definitely a very small part of admissions at even at system schools, at flagship schools, so Ivy League are not. Um, what are your thoughts about that? I, I know obviously the numbers relay that at Ivy League schools, especially schools like Harvard and Stanford, like transfer students are, are definitely not the majority of the population and probably will never be, um, but, um, how about flagship schools? |
| 0:24:33.6 | 52.9s | Dr. José Maldonado | I mean, so I was actually looking at some numbers recently, um, nationwide, transfer students, um, account for 66% of students at public universities, 43% at privates. Um, I was looking at New York. New York is about, um, the, the CUNY system, 55% of their graduates started at a community college, um. In in California where we are, we have, so the, the two major public systems are CSUs, California State University, and UC, University of California. Um, CSU's 51% of their students started out at a community college and 29% of UC students started at a community college, so, um. I would say that transfer students are a vital part of higher education, and if anything it's gonna become even more important in the coming years. |
| 0:25:26.66 | 29.6s | Loida González Utley | Yeah, the the Community College Research Center, uh, just published some numbers about dually enrolled students which could be duly enroll, yeah, or early college high school students. What was it? Doctor Celina, like 2.5 million, it has exceeded the amount of people ever in the United States with some college credit and still. There is some resistance to be ready for transfer students. So when will the numbers be so large that we will actually do something about it? |
| 0:25:57.44 | 208.2s | Dr. Celina Benavides | Yeah, I, I'm so glad you brought up about our dual enrollment students. We, we have so many reasons why someone may start off at a community college, and again there are there are these misconceptions, and I think this is why it's important to talk about it. And sometimes they're there because, well, actually they're in high school and they're working on their high school diploma and taking college credit because they want to be able to save money later on. It does make them more competitive competitive of an applicant when they're applying when they're graduating high school. And then we also have students who are really like working right after high school and they need the flexibility, but we're also seeing um in our current economy that people are looking for ways that they can save financially and Places where you can go like a community college where you can start your first two years to earn um your, your, your fundamental units before transferring you have it at a lower rate. So that is why so many are beginning there and then seeking to transfer and we have to normalize that because it is financially responsible that they're doing that and they're contributing to the workforce in many ways and then thinking about OK, so once they have that, how do we think about the ways that we bring them in to. A 4 year institutions so they can continue their journey and get their degree and not only their bachelor's but thinking about graduate school beyond that. And Jose was mentioning some of the universities that we were, you know, examining and profiling, and we also want to say that these are some of the ones who are also Committing and vocalizing that they want to create this change so we think that's important first step is that are these institutions being uh committed to increasing their numbers and then and when that happens then there is this conversation that can occur internally at these institutions or by people who are or who are sharing the knowledge and resources with them that well OK then let's think about. What does it look like when they're there because is it an inclusive environment? Are you providing enough social support for them when they're there, um, how are you providing the financial needs? And many of them, for example, Harvard who again did publish our work even though we had some points on it that were critical of the institution, they are, they are being committed to, I know, which is phenomenal. That they were open to that um which I think says a lot about where the institutions moving and, and, and advancing, and they are making financial commitments and expanding the, the, the ratio or the excuse me, the rate of which um someone may be able to apply for financial aid or have free tuition. So we're seeing that trend occurring. And that is a huge uh list of what could be a barrier for students and then with that though it's still like OK well once they're there, do they have the financial resources to be able to join the clubs and organizations to be able to fully participate as a whole student that others other peers may be doing. And then also where are the support from the faculty and staff as well, because again, this faculty have any biases about incoming transfer students? We have to be thinking as a whole, like how do we tackle this and think about what stigmas might we have in place and and to to then be open to, OK, well then if it is a transfer student or an incoming freshman, how can we involve them in their research or how can we. Um, these faculty have different labs on their campuses, or how can we involve them in specific programs so that they feel included and that is more likely to help them get their degree and then again think about another path in their higher education journey because we need a, a skilled workforce. We need an educated workforce and if we want to create this change in society that we're all talking about, I think this is the path to do that. |
| 0:29:26.13 | 7.6s | Loida González Utley | Absolutely. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, education is the door. That's it. I mean, it's the only way. |
| 0:29:35.14 | 86.1s | Dr. José Maldonado | Yeah, and I was just gonna say, just really quickly that reminds me of some of these great programs that we see, um, different universities coming up with really innovative programs like for example, um, I know that there are a lot out there, but the one that comes to mind first is UC San Diego. They have this, um, it's called PAT. I'm not sure what it stands for, but it's P A T H. And it's basically a 5 week program specifically tailored to transfer students that takes place over the summer. So, for example, let's say you just graduated in the spring, you're about to go to UC San Diego, you're a community college transfer student, you're gonna start in the fall. So over the summer, it's a free program. You take a 5-week class. And they basically prepare you for what is it like to be at a 10 week quarter system as opposed to 16 week semesters. What, what, what do you expect? What, what are the expectations at a 4 year? What are, what are your professors gonna be like? What are your classes like? And it's like basically like boot camp for transfer students and the cool thing is they meet actual faculty, they meet counselors, they make friends, they create little groups, um, support groups. And they get credits as well. They get, they accumulate units and so by the time the fall quarter comes, they're hitting the ground running because they're, I mean, at that point they're not even transfer students anymore. They're already 4 year students, they know what to expect and they're ready to go. And so it's really cool to see stuff like that at 4 years. |
| 0:31:02.16 | 107.3s | Dr. Celina Benavides | Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I think, uh, again, if we, if we think about the research out there, there are so much research on summer bridge programs, but most of them are focused on our incoming freshmen thinking about that transition time, yeah, from, from high school to entering into the, the four year college and that is important. We need to have those in place for our incoming students who are who are at the freshman level, but we're often over. Looking our transfer students and again what are the special programs, what are the special orientations that are unique, specific to our transfer students? Are we doing events that are bringing in their families as well? Are we having things for like their spouses where they can come onto campus and the kids can see their, their, their, if they're, if they're a parenting adult? That is so important for them to see them as a parent scholar if they're someone who has children. And, and thinking about the ways that we see them as a whole student. It it that is vital for them to feel like they belong, that they are valued at this institution and that their whole identity is being represented and welcomed and again, so much of our work, uh, is, is trying to think about, well, these initiatives are important for all students, but again our transfer students are doing great things and they're so eager and ready and they're at the point in their lives where they want to work hard and and continue and then get their degree. And if there's something in the way, then maybe we need to focus on the institutions a little bit more to think about, OK, how do we change the space? How do we think about our strategies to um to revitalize this and I think we're, that's what our research is trying to spotlight and, and thinking about the ways that we can kind of Make new pathways, revitalize what's already out there, and, and brainstorm together collaboratively. OK, we want to have higher education be this amazing experience for all students, but there are some gaps, and if the more that we talk about it openly, we can, you know, adjust and change them. |
| 0:32:50.18 | 14.8s | Loida González Utley | But Doctor Celina, students don't need that. They already know how to do college. They don't need those things, right, because they already know they just came from a college, so it's just common sense that they know how to do that at a university. |
| 0:33:06.30 | 79.7s | Dr. Celina Benavides | I love that you're saying so tongue in cheek, but you know what what so many people, um, this is starting to get into the work of like the hidden curriculum and, and what. We talk about is that we have as people who are in the field of education, we have so much um expertise and knowledge of it and then we sometimes forget like people at those earlier stages and this is true of like faculty staff and admin it can happen at any level and I love that what you're you're talking about on your podcast and what you're spotlighting too is like, well, let's think about that and how do we make it more visible for our students? These are the Strategies for success and um if again if we institutionalize it by having special programs that are devoted to this, then they're aware and this is especially important for not just a transfer student in general but also our first generation college students who may not have had a model before them to to explain these things and then it just not that they're incapable of figuring out themselves, they are, they have that navigational capital to draw from Yosso's work, but it would be. So much easier if we took away that having that them to guess and try to figure out on their own. If we can just say from the start, this is what this means. Um, when you hear this acronym, this is what this is because there's so much jargon and and language we use that they may be unfamiliar with and it's can be a bit surprising and jarring at first, but if we take the time to expose them, they're like, ah, OK, and then they're more likely to be successful. |
| 0:34:26.60 | 50.3s | Loida González Utley | I've always wondered like why do we assume that they know? Why don't we assume that nobody knows and we just start from the beginning, you know, from zero and you fill the gaps for people because too often on the recruitment side, um, too often we see students that like schedule meetings with us and they're like, hi, I want to transfer, but I don't know what I'm supposed to ask you. And, and so like they're they're they're dependent on us to fill those gaps. So I think the, the more proactive approach is to assume that they don't know anything about transfer and say, hey, do you know how to start this? Do you know what this is? Yes, OK, cool, let's move forward. No, OK, let me explain that to you just a little bit so you can understand the entirety of the experience and what to expect because we also want to set up realistic expectations for them. |
| 0:35:17.13 | 29.2s | Dr. José Maldonado | I think that's called um transfer student capital, right? Like just like college knowledge, like do you know what this means? Do you know what this acronym is? And it actually kind of reminds me also like um this term that I just recently learned about um it's called transfer melt. So it's this idea like basically the the students who are, they make it into a 4 year and they get, they get, they get um accepted but they don't actually enroll. |
| 0:35:46.60 | 207.5s | Loida González Utley | Oh yeah, oh yeah talk to me about my dissertation, which I'm currently working on covers some of that actually. So, so I just, I just, let's think about this. Um, the research that everybody references the Columbia, um, University research in collaboration, um, with, um, with other, I think the CCRC. We're still stuck on this 2005 research that has not changed. Out of 100 transfer students, 80 want to transfer, 20 actually transfer, and 17 of the 20% complete. OK, there's, there's different segments to this. First of all, why are we referencing 2015 data? And isn't it alarming that 10 years later that data has only changed by a few percentages? Like, cool, but leave the 2015. alone, how are we gonna, you know, how are we gonna move forward? Yeah, like how are we going to move forward so that in 10 years in 2035, we are not still stuck at a few percentages. Like who is taking the time to understand what is happening now, here's the other part. My thoughts, uh, and, and I here's the and, and I'm, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna finish on it. I'm gonna let you all give me your feedback. I, I take this personally, by the way, um, this, this lack of information comes from, for me being a first generation student and filling my own gaps because then I had two younger brothers that I had to fill gaps for and I couldn't go to my mom and my dad, right? Like they didn't understand the American. And education system, so I had to fill my own gaps and then be like, Hey, Hermanito, let me show you how to do it so that you're not lost and you have a seamless transition, right? So I think that's if I'm being honest like my passion for serving transfers is just comes fueled from my personal experiences and not knowing, um, and people making assumptions that I knew, um, so, so that's the first part. But here's the deal. There's research out there about student um transfer student barriers, tons of it, hundreds of it. But every single research that is out there right now puts the responsibility on the student. The student has a a financial barrier. The student has been misadvised. The student did not enroll. The student, uh, had other responsibilities that we understand. Great. But where's the part where higher education takes accountability? Where do we say, wait a minute, the student was misadvised, but the student didn't even know what to ask for. So maybe if we provide the information up front, then the student won't be misadvised because they'll have a better understanding of how to transfer to an institution. The student has financial barriers. OK, but what kind of financial barriers do we need to link them up to a service that helps them with child care? Um, does that mean food pantry? Does that mean a local church that will provide, uh, Wednesday meals, warm meals, because, you know, during finals, like what is that or transportation, like what is that financial like it's out there and and the information is out there. But like, where do we take accountability and why are we putting this on the student? Mhm. And that's, |
| 0:39:14.14 | 1.0s | Dr. Celina Benavides | that's, that's right. |
| 0:39:15.86 | 83.0s | Dr. José Maldonado | You ask all the right questions and that's precisely what drove my doctoral research, um, cause I, I was the same as you like that like I was tired of hearing all those buzzwords that center that put everything, all the burden on the student, right? So we talked about grit and and persistence and all these things and I'm just like. Well, what is, how is the institution meeting the student though, right? And so, like, for example, in my own research, which was centered on Essentially like first gen Latin students, um, what I found is that they relied on what is known as familismo, which is this cultural value that we have, um, as Rasa where just like you were looking out for your little brothers, um, our students were looking out for each other and helping each other navigate their way through these systems that are so complicated, right? And, and the reason that I wanted to find out. Basically, what is that special ingredient our students are relying on is so that we can leverage that as an institution and use that and not just expect students to figure it out on their own, but we can In turn, apply what they've been applying to figure things out. So I'm, I'm 100% with you on that too. I was finding the same research as you, Loida, like all expecting the students to figure everything out without the institution really taking accountability. |
| 0:40:39.66 | 109.2s | Dr. Celina Benavides | Mhm. Yeah, and I think that. Yeah, there's so many parts to it to tackle. I think the, the familismo, the sense of belonging that is key that the again, research has shown that that it is really important for any type of student. Even if they're uh what might be considered like a traditional student who comes in as an incoming freshman, the sense of belonging really matters on their campus. And so then when we think about how do we focus on the students who are maybe more marginalized or who maybe don't feel included in these spaces, we know that matters for them even more so. Um, and I love that you're doing the work, and we talked about this before about that that was a project that I was doing at a prior institution before coming to Oxnard College. We're focusing on our students who they were accepted and said yes, but then they didn't come in. They weren't admitted. So what, where's that drop off happening? And that is such a gap in the research that they're overlooked and again they were chosen. For a reason to go to that institution, but then they're not. And so is it a life situation that, that, that was unexpected? But when you talk about like the numbers and quantifying that, if it's that many students and there's something happening there and we need to do more about what, what are our institutions, uh, not just in higher education, but what are the other institutions in our society that can help support our students. So again, if the goal is to change. How society is and creating an educated workforce, then we need to be working more collaboratively not just internally within our institutions and thinking about our different departments and offices and faculty but then thinking about our other organizations in a community that can provide wrap around support to enable all of these students to that this is their goal and they want to go on for higher education to help them so that way we can make sure that they can give back to society in the ways that are meaningful and contribute to their communities. |
| 0:42:29.4 | 13.9s | Dr. José Maldonado | We got to figure out how to capture that data too, because those, those students that are admitted and don't enroll, it's, it's gonna be tough to find them to get that data. If we can figure that out though, that'd be a game |
| 0:42:42.92 | 0.9s | Loida González Utley | changer. Oh |
| 0:42:43.87 | 16.9s | Dr. Celina Benavides | yeah, that's why I'm so excited doing this for a dissertation because part of the grant project that I was doing before, we were calling them and we got a few to respond and we'd ask them like, quick. Questions over the phone, but it needs to be a deeper dive and you need larger numbers of it. So I cannot wait for you to start doing that work. I want to hear about it and |
| 0:43:00.77 | 0.4s | Loida González Utley | go through |
| 0:43:01.17 | 0.2s | Dr. Celina Benavides | it, |
| 0:43:01.35 | 95.4s | Loida González Utley | you know, you know what that's like. Um, I think altogether we're talking about something really important, right? There's this underlying like consensus here. We're talking about a culture change. We're talking about culture. We're talking about something that Has that we feel passionate about that we know needs to change and it needs to change now. Um, and it seems like, and I, I, we've met before virtually, but just a disclosure, we've never met in person and I don't know their life stories, but just from the feeling, uh listeners, you could probably feel their passion. It just, it's fueled by the desire to help people to overcome challenges that we have maybe personally, um, experienced in our own education, and I think that there is beauty to that. Um, I think that culture change is the the hardest change, but somebody's got to start it. Somebody has, has got to do something and maybe those somebodies are you, they're me and they're people listening to this podcast that I hope uh feel encouraged and empowered to, you're right. You said sometimes you're like the lone wolf, you're the only person on the campus and you're like, we gotta do things that really, oh my goodness, and like nobody's really my intention, but you're doing it anyway. I think y'all are on to something and I am really excited for the things that you're going to implement. Um, and the data that is gonna come out from it, I think it's also going to be monumental for the work that we are doing in transfer. |
| 0:44:37.25 | 20.2s | Dr. Celina Benavides | Thank you, thanks for allowing us to share it with others, and we're hoping to continue to, to collaborate and talk with other people so we can be strategic about, OK, let's think about specific campuses and then how do we strategize to help them be successful with their particular student body. So thank you so much for your time today, Loida, and for allowing us to share our work and what we're excited and passionate about, |
| 0:44:58.40 | 44.7s | Loida González Utley | man, it's my, it is my pleasure to connect with you all. I also, uh, before we end, I just wanna say a stark reminder, um. And there are about 1.2 Americans with a doctoral degree in the United States, and very few of those are Hispanics. So kudos to you all for the work that you have done and the way that you've used that to give back to other populations that are marginalized and multi-marginalized. So I wanted to give you a good Kudos for that. I feel it in my corazon right now, um, just seeing, just seeing y'all, um, and having these conversations is so meaningful and so impactful, and, um, I, I hope that you continue. I know you will continue to do the work, and we will just have to have a follow up episode in a year to see where we're at. |
| 0:45:43.88 | 4.1s | Dr. José Maldonado | Absolutely, absolutely you can, you can, you can book us now if you want. |
| 0:45:49.79 | 5.3s | Loida González Utley | We're spilling, we're spilling different tea in a year. Thank you. |
| 0:45:55.64 | 1.4s | Dr. José Maldonado | Thank you so much. It was a great. |
| 0:46:05.58 | 53.3s | Loida González Utley | Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Transfer Tea. Today, we explored the pivotal role faculty play in guiding students through the transfer process. Their active involvement not only demystifies transfer pathways, but also empowers students to make informed decisions about their academic futures. By fostering a collaborative environment, faculty can significantly enhance transfer success rates and student satisfaction. If you have found this discussion insightful, be sure to subscribe to Transfer Tea on your preferred podcast platform. We welcome your feedback and suggestions as well for future topics. You can reach out to us anytime via email at transfertea@aacrao.org. Until next time, let's continue to support and uplift our transfer student community. That's the tea. |